Summary GDA Connect- The role of nuclear energy in industrial decarbonization (Youtube) www.youtube.com
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Jennifer Gordon Good afternoon, everyone, and welcome to the Global Decarbonization Accelerator Connect- space in the green zone. We are live from COP 28. My name is Jennifer Gordon, and I'm the director of the nuclear energy policy initiative at the Atlantic Council. And today, we'll be talking about the role of nuclear energy in industrial decarbonization And to provide keynote remarks and give us a bit of an overview of the US Department of States first program and project Phoenix, which are really directly aimed at this topic at this issue of of industrial decarbonization. I am so delighted to introduce the honorable ambassador Bonnie Jenkins under secretary of arms control and international security at the United States Department of State.
Bonnie Jenkins Hello, everyone. 70 years ago, president Eisenhower spoke about how the global community must come together to apply the Adam to the art of peace. The United States knows that peaceful power from atomic energy is no dream of the future. The capability already proved is here today. This quote from his famous Adams for Peace Beach is what soon became a guiding principle for how we could use nuclear energy, science, and technologies for peaceful purposes.
Bonnie Jenkins Alongside nonpliferation and safeguard measures to ensure that their use remains exclusively peaceful. It is clear that recent advances in nuclear science and technology like small modular reactors or SMRs are poised to play an important role in helping countries achieve their goals in economic growth, energy security, and reducing carbon emissions. Industrial emissions account for nearly a quarter of the global carbon emissions. Many heavy industry applications are considered hard to abate sectors, largely using fossil based energy and requiring high temperature heat processes. Many of this energy can be replaced by nuclear energy or by clean fuels like ammonia and hydrogen.
Bonnie Jenkins Produce using nuclear energy. We see an enormous opportunity here globally, and we are very excited with this with the new flexibilities offered by new nuclear technologies to tackle these hard to abate sectors. SMRs can provide 247 reliable power, compliment other clean energy sources, and, importantly, use a very small land area and can be built where the end user needs it. Access to large land areas and build out transmission lines. They also have advanced safety features.
Bonnie Jenkins Including designs to withstand extreme weather and seismic events and can be tailored to match the specific needs of a country's power grid. With the ability to scale up as needed. Important for industrial applications, SMRs can provide both clean electricity and high temperature waste heat that can be harnessed for industrial applications. They can play a critical role in decarbonizing sectors a transition to energy, clean energy options is difficult, including clean hydrogen production, heavy industrial processes, and water desalice desalination to meet decarbonization and energy security goals and significantly improve air quality and clean water access needs. These diverse applications can greatly advance possibilities for industry and manufacturing facilities as well as create jobs.
Bonnie Jenkins At the Department of State, we are supporting projects to help decarbonize hard to evade sectors. For example, we are working with Ukrainian partners under or 1st program to assess the techno technical technical feasibility of producing hydrogen and ammonia at a commercial scale using secure and safe SMR technology for Ukraine, industrial, and transportation sectors and fertilizer industry. This pilot project was announced by special representative envoy for climate, Carrie, and Ukraine energy minister Galashchenko at COP 27. It is a first of a kind pilot that demonstrate production of clean hydrogen and at commercial scale using secure and safe, small modular nuclear reactor, and cutting edge electrolysis technology in Ukraine. The project seeks to support Ukraine's energy sector energy security goals enabled decarbonization of hard to abate energy sectors through clean, hydrogen generation, and improve long term food security to clean ammonia produce fertilizers.
Bonnie Jenkins Further, it aims to demonstrate Ukraine's innovative clean energy leadership to the use of advanced technologies. This is a great example of partnership between government and private industry. The multinational consortium working together on this are from Argonne National Laboratory, Ukraine's interdottom National Security And Defense Connect- and state scientific and technical center for nuclear and radiation safety at multiple international private companies. In another example, on November 9th in Bratislava, also under the first program, we kicked off what's called Connect- Phoenix. Out of the ashes, a coal to SMR conversion program.
Bonnie Jenkins Speck John Carey announced the initial compared competitively selected awardees of this program in September of this year. That includes Slovakia, Poland, and the Czech Republic. Project Phoenix also implemented under the 1st program is now providing support for feasibility studies and other technical assistance to those countries and helping them in transitioning their coal assets to secure and safe small modular reactors. While the focus of the initiative is to fund SMR feasibility studies, and provide other technical and advisory services to facilitate these conversions. We also want to create a program that builds a partnership with countries permitting the the retaining of local workforces and growth of local jobs.
Bonnie Jenkins We already saw the great enthusiasm from the initial recipients of support at our Connect- Phoenix launch event. For 19 countries and brought us lava last month. And my team has already been engaging with partner countries to implement the program. 1 of the recipients of Slovakia is exploring the use of small modular reactors to decarbonize its steel industry. A US based company, US Steel, has operations in Slovakia.
Bonnie Jenkins And together, they are exploring the prospects of using SMRs to decarbonize their steel production processes. This is exactly the type of efforts that both advance decarbonization goals and stimulate economic development. With the anticipated increase in nuclear power globally, We are also supporting nuclear workforce development through the establishment of SMR training hubs featuring US SMR control room simulators and university engagements with US University partners. We launched an SMR Regional Training Hub in Romania, at the University of Polytechnica in May of this year. Industrial off takers also represent an important economic opportunity for private sector investment in nuclear Energy.
Bonnie Jenkins The United States is eager to work with partners to explore the use of advanced nuclear energy for industrial applications. While we are delighted by the enthusiasm of the 1st program, 1 challenge is that we consistently face is not being able to meet the high demand. I continue to work to ensure we have the ability to support and I am grateful for our partner country's keen interest in collaborating on these activities. We see this growing interest in nuclear energy, not only through our programmatic efforts, but also more broadly in climate policy. As many of you know, just this past weekend, spec Carrie announced declaration to triple nuclear energy with well over 20 countries earlier this weekend.
Bonnie Jenkins To declaration recognizes the key role of nuclear energy in achieving global net 0 greenhouse gas emissions by 2050. We seek to ramp up our outreach and capacity building efforts to meet this demand. In the near term, the successful deployment of advanced reactors built on decades of research is both a challenge and opportunity to meet the moment in addressing the climate crisis. 1st of a kind deployments can be difficult and we are committed to doing everything that we can to deploy these technologies to combat the climate crisis and increase access to clean energy. Both in the near and long term, ensuring cooperation through entities such as the IEA remains important to nuclear energy future.
Bonnie Jenkins The US has provided over $640,000,000 to support the IEA peaceful uses initiatives since 2010. To build capacity among member states in the peaceful application of nuclear Technologies. We recognize and support the IEA's activities in supporting its member states upon request to include nuclear power in their national energy planning in a sustainable way that adheres to the highest standards of safety, security, and safeguards. And in that way, we sincerely appreciate the IEA's Adam for net 0 initiative as an opportunity for stakeholders to exchange expertise. I wanna thank you all for taking time to listen to me and once again, so very happy with the way in which COP 28 has really embraced nuclear energy.
Bonnie Jenkins And look forward to more of these type of discussions in the future. Thank you.
Jennifer Gordon And now I'm so delighted to call our panelists to the stage. First, John Wagner, who is the director of Idaho National Laboratory, the honorable William Demagwood, the 4th, director general of OECD's nuclear energy agency and Anna virtual special envoy for strategic and international affairs at nuclear Electrica. Well, welcome to our panelists. And, John, I'd like to start with you, for a bit of a a technical, piece of this conversation, the Idaho National Laboratory INL is doing so much work on real applications and applications for nuclear beyond power. So could you give us a little bit more detail?
John Wagner Certainly. First of all, thank you so much for having me. It's a pleasure to be with all of you today. So there is a lot happening of it. In the nuclear energy sector, the honorable, body Jenkins just spoke a little bit about that and the the number of the pledges.
John Wagner And maybe just for a little bit of context, I represent the Idaho National Laboratory, the Department of Energy's National Laboratory that focuses on nuclear energy, research, development, and demonstration. So we're applied energy laboratory. So we're looking at what are the applications, for us to, to apply technologies to that will make a difference and make an impact worldwide. So, traditionally, in the United States, but but even beyond the United States, the focus for nuclear has been on electricity. There's still a strong need there as we electrify even industrial processes.
John Wagner So there's still gonna be a strong, need for expanding electricity and non carbon emitting electricity In particular, our 93 reactors in the United States are all, completely focused on electricity production. But As we look at strong demands, electricity growth, we look at, strong demands to to decarbonize industrial processes, many of which the honorable Bonnie Jenkins just mentioned, we're increasingly working with, stakeholders and companies that are interested and supporting decarbonization of of industrial processes that particularly, for example, require high temperature heat. It's a great example of that in the US is the the DOE project Connect- with Dow Chemicals and, X Energy. To deploy 1 of their high temperature gas reactors. Now I know in the in the broader community, sometimes it's confusing about why do we have so many different nuclear technologies and different and so forth.
John Wagner And that's really driven by the different use cases, whether that's a remote community in Alaska that doesn't a lot of power, but might need things beyond electricity, like electricity and heat to a Dow chemicals that needs tremendous amounts of electricity and tremendous amounts of high temperature, steam for their for their processes. So I've probably gotten a little bit off track with you, but what we're working on at the laboratory is, 1, demonstrating that we can do this again, with new reactors, going operational this decade, but also how then we use those And a great example, I'll just do maybe 1 or 2, is our Marvel reactor so that we're working hard on a very small system to go operational in 2025. I think about 1, value of this is learning how to do this again as a nation. We haven't done this in a while. 2 is then having an r and d platform that will help determine what is the broader applicability of these so called micro reactor systems.
John Wagner For doing things like, cogeneration, electricity, and heat production and other other uses. It's it's got enough sort of, size to make it relevant for demonstrating those sorts of things. And then another application, that's, of of a lot of interest that 1 of our projects speaks to. It's a project. It's a partnership.
John Wagner You're gonna hear a lot about partnerships from me, with Southern company and Terra Power is the molten chloride reactor experiment. And the application there that is I mean, there's lots, but the 1 that's particularly interesting is maritime shipping. Maritime shipping accounts for significant decarbonization. And, and so the that's 1 of their applications that they're interested in. Maybe I'll stop there.
John Wagner So, so we have time for others.
Jennifer Gordon John, thank you so much. And I think that that overview of all the different use cases for nuclear reactors is why I always say that there's a reactor out there for everyone. So, Bill, I'd like to go to you. Yesterday, you announced NEA's new accelerating SMRs for net 0 initiative. Can you tell us a little bit more about your goals?
William Demagwood Sure. First, it's a real pleasure to be here to see, to be on the panel with John and Anna. It's, always more comfortable to be with old friends when you're having these conversations. If if this has, been a very important cop for lots of reasons. And, obviously, as, as Bonnie Jenkins was saying in her remarks, this is really the first cop that had nuclear at the center point, the way it has been We had an event last night, that was hosted by the presidency, the UAE in which, there was a very vigorous discussion about nuclear issues, and all these cops were now a cop 28 the first time that's happened.
William Demagwood And so it shows you how much things have changed. And things have been really evolving over the last couple of years, but I see an acceleration because you have we have more and more countries. And of course, this has been symbolized very well by the, announcement during this COP that now 24 countries, have signed on to the, the goal of tripling nuclear capacity globally, which falls in line quite nice with analysis that we have done over the years. And as we've done that analysis, and we've looked at how we would actually achieve a tripling, It is clear that we will need to have long term operation of current nuclear power plants. We will need, new large scale light water reactors.
William Demagwood But we will also absolutely need, small module reactors to fill the roles just as John was indicating. And there's a lot of different possibilities out there for microreactors, small reactors, mobile reactors, perhaps ship ship board, marine reactors to all this is on the table, all this is being explored by many people. But at the same time, we also recognize that there are significant, institutional, regulatory, legal, and other infrastructure issues to have to be addressed. And, we held a ministerial meeting, just at the end of September at the at the NEA in cooperation with the government of France. Where we brought together 20 ministers and about 40 CEOs.
William Demagwood And the conclusion of that was that there are important issues such as supply chain skills and education, financing this course is very large in that. But really, there's there's really many, many other issues that have to be addressed. And it's very clear to us that in the past, the organization like the NEA would have worked with the government sector and the laboratories like John and his people to try to find solutions. That was the old way of doing business. The new way of doing business is that public sector and the private sector have to work together, have to work as a unit to solve these issues and be able to address them.
William Demagwood This initiative that we announced accelerating SMRs for net 0 does that. It brings the public and private sectors together and focuses not on setting targets or goals or making great announcements or having photo ops, but and solving the problems that will keep that would keep SMRs from serving the role that we think they can serve. There is a lot of work to do. It will require governance working together as well as a private sector working together. Our task here is to bring these pieces together, solve those problems, answer those questions.
William Demagwood And pave the way for this bright future that we all think can can can unfold.
Jennifer Gordon Bill, thank you so much. And I'd like to stay on the SMR topic and go to Anna. Nuclear Electric is Romania's only nuclear producer in Romania. And, of course, you're a strategic contributor to Romania's energy security and deep decarbonization, what a Romania and nuclear electric has plans to use nuclear energy to decarbonization abate sectors?
Anna Well, firstly, thank you so much Jennifer and Atlantic Connect- for inviting us to be part of this amazing panel. Always an honor and a pleasure. And thank you to all of you for taking time to come and, be here with us. And, I have to pay a special thanks and congratulations to you, Jennifer, and the Atlantic team's energy. Because, we've been battling including or especially for nuclear now for for a few good years.
Anna And, I'm very happy and pleased to acknowledge that this year, the nuclear is a little bit more present at the COP than, in last year or so I'm expecting 4 years to come this, huge presence to be recognized because as, sign, you know, as everybody is saying all the time, nuclear, energy, it's about science is not about politics. And the energy coming from the nuclear has been proven to be the most affordable clean and reliable, source of energy. Coming back to nuclear Electric and to Romania, we are very proud to say that We've been, having now since 1968, the only country in the region with the North American technology. We we are having 2 units and we are building 2 other units. We are refurbishing 1 unit.
Anna That means we are adding 30 more years of, of life, to that unit. And complimentary, we are at the forefront deploying the SMR 1st in Europe, and we are very proud of that because we've been showing and we've been advocating that the, the SMR Tech is a a safe technology and is complementary to the large scale reactors. Showing that actually you can, provide energy as a source of clean energy And quite frankly, you are not going to achieve the decarbonization goals without the nuclear. So, nuclear electric is, at the forefront, as I said, In fact, last year at COP, we made a big announcement, for the steel, for example, we have we've been proving that actually we take actions and we've been, assigning a memorandum of understanding with a leading European Steel Producers to explore the operation for the SMR project in Romania, which could have a great impact also in achieving the production of green steel in Romania. So practically what we are trying to do, and we are doing it, because you know us, we are very determined banking on our excellent experience and and, expertise.
Anna We are creating a, a green ecosystem that will be an example, not just for others in Romania. We are creating that, industrial hub with the SMRs and showing by and leading by example, for other sectors, not just steel, but the cement, the data centers and so on and so forth showing that practically you can do it. And we trust that our example will inspire further industrial actions and a more, and rapid deployment of the SMRs, not just in our regions, Central Eastern Europe, but in Europe as well and Worldwide because, again, in our region, energy is not just a matter of providing a reliable cheap, source of energy, but it's a matter of security as well.
Jennifer Gordon Anna, thank you so much. And I really love this notion of Romania as as a regional industrial hub and a regional clean energy hub. And I think that's so important. And, John, I'd like for us to also to talk about this idea of the regional to global narrative and and how we how what we do in our regions really impacts the international sphere as well. You and I and I and L and the Atlanta Connect-, of course, are working on this frontiers project where we look at applications generally off grid applications for micro reactors in states in the mountain west.
Jennifer Gordon But how do you see what we do in in that region as bringing the the benefits of those reactors to the global market as well? Yeah.
John Wagner Thanks so much. And, of course, thanks for your partnership on the Frontier's project. You know, I'll talk a little bit. I'll expand on this, but, really, the short answer is is demonstrating the possibilities that then others can take advantage of. But 1 of the things that's been so exciting for me as a nuclear engineer and and so, you know, unapologetic nuclear and engineer for for my career, and, is to see the the substantial growth and risk over the last few years that continues to accelerate with arguments like the 3 x of nuclear energy by the 24 countries now.
John Wagner And, you know, that was sort of unthinkable 10, 20 years ago. And so to watch it in this, you know, sometimes nuclear, it seems It doesn't move that fast. Things are moving very fast right now. And that's very exciting. But going back to the regional to global, but but themed on that, We've, as we talked to the the for the those who don't live in the United States, the upper northwestern portion of the country, states like, Wyoming, for example, I'll start there perhaps, where is, state in the that actually is a major energy producer, primarily fossil based.
John Wagner But they're very intelligent and very used to being an energy state. And so but they're looking at their future. They have a governor, in their state who's very forward looking. And so that opened up opportunities first just to have the conversations about what role could nuclear play in, in Wyoming. Now many of you probably would think about Wyoming.
John Wagner You might think about Kemmer, Wyoming, and the Terra Power Natrium Connect-. That's 1 example. It's a big 1. And and by the way, on that project, a lot of times people will think about People don't want nuclear in their town or in their city. We're finding the exact opposite of that, not in every single state, but in many states across the United States.
John Wagner And and so when the company that was gonna pursue that Terra Power project was looking at 4 different sites in Wyoming, they were actually competing to win that project. So Kimmer sort of won that project. Now going back to but beyond that, there's a whole lot of opportunities in Wyoming, and then I'll I'll talk about Alaska. For sort of off grid applications. These states don't have interconnectivity, for their electricity grids.
John Wagner And so smaller systems are very interesting. Not just for, say, remote communities in Alaska and Canada, but also for remote mining applications. In other words, other places where you need power, but you have no grid access. And so what we're doing in terms of then to the regional to global, we're working with these regional partners. You might not think about Alaska's regional, but we do.
John Wagner In Montana and Utah, Utah has significant coal plants that they're looking to, divest in and replace for their energy production So we're working locally. And as we demonstrate that these systems actually work and what they cost, for these different applications. Again, whether that's remote communities in Canada, particularly BWXT has a, a microreactor project in Wyoming, then they that others see what what is an option for them to actually use. And so 1 of the big things we're trying to do in the United States is to demonstrate these reactors so that other countries don't have to do that first of kind demonstration but think can benefit from it.
Jennifer Gordon John, thank you so much. And I think 1 thing too about the Frontier's project is that it's really being led by the States and also by the private sector. And so, Bill, I'd like to go to you because you mentioned the public private partnerships, and the importance of of working with them and and encouraging them to deploy SMRs. So to what extent are you engaging with the private sector on this new initiative? And what do what do you see as the role of the private sector?
William Demagwood Well, obviously, the role of the private sector is is everything in this because if the private sector is not participating, governments don't have a way of implementing these technologies on the scale that we're talking about. So the, there's already a lot public private partnerships have taken place. In fact, all the almost all the I think I've heard to say all the technologies that really have a a reasonable chance to play a role in the energy transition in the 2030, 20, 35 pike timeframe. Have benefited from government, investment. I I think that's true across the board Connect- to country.
William Demagwood And That's just the beginning, though, you know, because, 1 of the things about nuclear technology that makes it a little bit harder than other things is that, 100 of 1,000,000 of dollars sounds like a lot of money, but the nuclear business is not very much money at all. And I I often used to tell people if you're developing a new nuclear technology, you don't have $2,000,000,000 somewhere, you might as well just go home because you're not gonna be successful if there's not
John Wagner Micro reactors.
William Demagwood Micro reactors might be might be an exception. We'll see. We'll see on that. And these new technologies, are going to require you know, not just this government investment in designing and doing the research development, but the initial deployment is going to require a lot of support, for for, I think, 2 or 3 different reasons. 1, certainly, is a first of a kind cause.
William Demagwood First of a kind, reactors have a tendency to be more difficult. They have schedule issues. Unexpected design changes midstream. It just happens. This is life in the in this business.
William Demagwood And In the past, we were very good about absorbing those into projects and not having to be big perturbations. We're less good at that these days. We're we we don't have the experience yet. I I think we'll grow that experience. But today, these perturbations can be very destabilizing for projects.
William Demagwood Because it's not just design issues or manufacturing issues, it's all it's all supply chain issues, that have that that can create these problems. So there's larger risk with 1st kind Connect- and with with the rest of the Connect-. And I think that, ultimately, there's going to have to be a way to mitigate those risks. And I think government can play a role in that. But there's also on top of that, I guess, why we call it an ecosystem in which new reactor technologies are going to need to operate.
William Demagwood If you're operating a light water reactor, you're deploying a light water reactor, there's already a good ecosystem out there. There's people who have experience in handling the materials. There's people who know how to operate them. There's manufacturers to help make fuel for them. But if you go to something completely different molten salt reactors, we don't have the ecosystem.
William Demagwood And so there's going to have to be a supply chain in the ecosystem that will be created around these new technologies just doesn't exist today. And, I don't see that happening in an effective and quick way unless there's government support. So I think there's a huge role for the public sector But, I see this is largely being led by the private sector. And I know, John, a lot of the programs, that you're running at, Idaho National Laboratory really are private sector driven. Not the old way where where the labs or the DOE would come up with the technology and then try to convince the public's the private sector, this is really good technology.
William Demagwood It should come join us. That's not the way it works anymore. And so, I look at these roles as being more or less co equal. Both are necessary. And, particularly if we're going to see these technologies implemented in a time frame that's relevant, which really means just the next decade or so, you gotta have a big role for the public sector.
John Wagner Man, man, Well, I I completely agree, Bill. And and 1 of the things that that may be lost on some is that to develop new nuclear fuels, materials, reactors, you need significant infrastructure. You need things like hot cells. You need access to the materials themselves. And as a national laboratory, we can provide that to the to the private sector developers, so they don't have to do those literally 1,000,000,000 of dollars of investments, themselves.
William Demagwood Well, look, I'm I'm gonna jump. I I promised that this really quick point, because it's a really extraordinarily important point. And as John knows painfully, I think, even in our countries today and all the NEA countries today, we don't have all the infrastructure should we need to to do what we think is necessary. There are no, fast neutron reactors in operation in Europe North America, Japan, the places where these technologies were created in the first place, we don't have access to those research reactors. Russia has a research reactor, that's very good, but we don't have access to that right now.
William Demagwood So it's a big problem, and that's another area where I think the public sector needs to make a big investment provide that kind of research infrastructure.
Jennifer Gordon Absolutely. Thank you so much, Bill, and thank you, John, as well. And I really think that that nuclear energy innovation ecosystem is so crucial. And I think I wanna turn a little bit from the from the discussion of the role of the private sector And, Anna, I wanna talk with you a little bit about the role of government because you and I have talked a lot about nuclear's inclusion in in in frameworks like the EU's green taxonomy. I had a great conversation the other day about Canada deciding to include nuclear energy in its green bond framework.
Jennifer Gordon And I think also just the fact that we are here at the world's premier climate conference suddenly with nuclear at the front and center, I think is opening up whole new worlds, for nuclear to really be accepted in the climate community and to be accepted as a 0 carbon source of energy. So, Anna, talk to us what's Connect-. How can we encourage more of this of of this great progress?
Anna Well, Jennifer, indeed, you are very right and listening to John and Bill, you know, practically what you are doing is laying the right foundation for seeing every single penny that is spent on nuclear being on a research, or manufacturer is not the spending. He's actually an investment in the present and in the future. And, as I was mentioning in my previous intervention, I am incredibly proud and and, happy to see that the nuclear is regaining its role on the international stage is not the bow bow in the room anymore. And it's not the 1 being put on the corner to not be touched because you know what? Just because of a parent is when in reality, again, is science is not, political declarations that the energy from the new clear.
Anna It is the most affordable, clean, and reliable source of energy, and that's very, very important. So, you know, John, congratulations to you, all the efforts that you and your team are doing. And the OECD level, you know, just to promote what the nuclear is. And, of course, Jennifer, again, I'm not repeating, but what you've been doing and helping us when we've been battling not just not just the taxonomy, and we still have lot of work to do on that because we do need to if I may say in a very candid way, we need to continue to educate the financial institutions to understand that actually investing in financing the nuclear projects being on a traditional, large scale, nuclear power plants or the SMB cars. While at the beginning, it might look expensive in reality when you do the math and its math is science.
Anna Again, they are not, population, you will see that actually is the most affordable and cheaper sources of energy. And that's why it is an investment is not uh-uh spending in Romania and, you know, our my country is situated in a in a very strategic region. You know, at the border of the Black Sea. You mentioned what I've been battling and we've been battling together for many years since 2019. When we've been out of locating to take the energy away from putting his hands because he's going to be used as a weapon, and you saw the under secretary, we all heard the efforts of helping Ukraine as well.
Anna And Romania is doing its part, not just helping Ukraine, but helping Republic of Moldova, providing the energy. So being in this strategic region, that's, of course, is continuing to, make us, be responsible. But likewise, take the opportunities. And Romania has the potential and has all the ingredients to be a hub to create that eco green ecosystem that we've been talking about that hub in partnership with United States. And for that, again, I want to stress that it's very important to see the energy not just from the commercial point of view, but actually from the strategic, security point of view as well.
Anna And in nuclear, electrical, we do have a great expertise and experience and we are very, you know, open to share that experience and expertise with others from the region because as I was mentioning, we've been the only we are the only 1 in the region in Central Eastern Europe that we've been going from 1968 so older than I am, with the North American technology. And that's something that it's a wealth where we've been operating. We are number 1, for more than 27 years, and that's a wealth experience and expertise. And maybe a little bit later I could elaborate that we we are, a very good, experience when comes to the training as well at the university because we are, again, in the region, the ones that we've been having, including a master, especially on the nuclear. And human resources is the, you know, it's a wealth, and that's something that we need to to continue to invest, in it.
Jennifer Gordon Absolutely. Thank you so much, Anna. And I really wanna emphasize your point about reframing the way that we think of nuclear as a cost and instead thinking about it, as an investment and really, as you said, an investment in our future. And very unfortunately, this is all the time that we have. This was such a wonderful conversation Please join me in thanking our panelists.
John Wagner And for thank you, Jennifer.
Jennifer Gordon Thank you. Thank you, John.